Item Durability and Repair

[fluffydino2000]

Having a system like this that works fully dynamic might be difficult to achieve. But even if it works of some formulas behind the scene. It would still be a better and more immersive system than:
Weapon works perfect until 10%durability, now weapon only deal 20% damage. As it's in most games. Souls games as an example.

Honestly, I'm aware that most of my ideas are a little far-fetched (self writing literature, natural language interface to name a few) but I like to promote discussion. To me, these ideas seem like the best way to accomplish that. Also, if it gives the team a new idea (unlikely) then it's definitely a bonus.

But I do agree, make it organic at least, otherwise it'll just be a chore. I honestly don't think it'd be that difficult to falsely simulate deformation with statistically controlled outcomes (i.e. if a force of > x amount acts in y direction, bend shaft of model by 0.5 degrees.)

 

[Empire²]

Honestly, I'm aware that most of my ideas are a little far-fetched (self writing literature, natural language interface to name a few) but I like to promote discussion. To me, these ideas seem like the best way to accomplish that. Also, if it gives the team a new idea (unlikely) then it's definitely a bonus.

Haha, don't you worry, that's something I have too!

You're absolutely right as well. Promoting discussion about features is the only way for us to find out whether it is possible or not, either through a fellow community member who happens to know a lot more about coding, or through one of the SG devs.

If modding were to become accessible enough for us to do, I would even go as far as to try my hand at implementing some features that unfortunately didn't make the cut. Some of my ideas were Reputation and Controversy, which would affect NPC behaviour and dialogue based on their/your level and faction. However, I read somewhere that we will be able to form and lead our own groups of Mercenaries/Bandits, which goes together with that very nicely. People might know not only your name and your weapon of choice, but also that you're the leader of the fearless Fairy Forest Prancer bandits. This would make for an even greater gameplay mechanic in co-op, where you and your partner can be known as a fearsome but noble duo that steal from the rich and give to the poor (a la Robin Hood). One's got an eagle eye and can hit a fly from a mile away, the other's got a sword and is fast as lightning in using it.

I never liked how in a lot of RPGs, like The Elder Scrolls, you start out being some sort of unique character (Dragonborn, Nerevarine, Champion etc.), some sort of Chosen One (*cue old men talking about prophecies*). I would prefer making a name for myself like you could in Mount and Blade, where, after competing in tournaments and battles, lords and ladies all over the land would know your name and would have something to say about your deeds.

But you know, after all, this is just me daydreaming.

 

[fluffydino2000]

I'd hope that reputation was just an extension of the dynamic AI. But it all depends on how well they simulate the spread of information. I think the biggest plus for well simulated reputation would be crime, but that's going off topic a bit.

Something I just realised is that there would have to be new weapons being made all the time because, eventually, they may all end up broken. It's an extreme scenario, but it could happen.

I'm not sure if this is on topic either but it's directly related. What do people think about improving equipment beyond its standard effectiveness? I realised after reading something on here about DS that the souls games have deep weapon upgrade systems. I was wondering if a system could be implemented in this.

I'm personally thinking along the lines of war of the roses where you could specify fighting styles for weapons and the bevel of the blade etc. It lends well to the modular equipment idea that was floated a while back. Obviously we know that changing the appearance of equipment is planned, it's been mentioned several times. But, I'm not sure that getting someone to improve it has. I think, if it worked in the same way as you'd commission a weapon from a smith, you'd also asked for it to be sharpened and the grip changed etc.

What do you guys think about improving equipment?

 

[ZaratanCho]

Sure, improving equipment could work, with some interesting ways to enchance it too. Shouldn't feel mandatory though. Greater improovements should be hard to get. We will see when we test the game, but generally something like this can be good. Thaumaturgic effects/enhancment on objects(gear) ? Probably not permanent.

How much you are going to change your weapon and a bunch of other things should be considered when coming up with such a system. ;D

 

[cosmo bozo]

I think weapons should be able to break, if only for the moment of panic it creates... the broken piece in your hand should function like a basic dagger or club, allowing you to fight on...then you will have to take your opponents weapon, or find something..

It should be rare though, swords shouldn't snap every 5 minutes as a) it would get annoying and b) it would take away that moment of panic if it happened all the time.

 

[Parco]

i think a broken sword shouldnt have less dmg than when it was not broken, as the edges is still as sharp as it was before broken and it might have gotten a new pointy end when it broke, so if the pointy end of the sword was quite dull before it broke it might get alot more stab dmg after it broke, but it will lack the length and weight it had before so the impact on hit would be far less, so as cosmo bozo just said it would function as dagger.
what would also be fun is if it could break off anywhere on the blade, making it sometimes work as a short(er)sword or other times not even usable as a dagger

 

[Komuflage]

I'd hope that reputation was just an extension of the dynamic AI. But it all depends on how well they simulate the spread of information. I think the biggest plus for well simulated reputation would be crime, but that's going off topic a bit.

Something I just realised is that there would have to be new weapons being made all the time because, eventually, they may all end up broken. It's an extreme scenario, but it could happen.

I'm not sure if this is on topic either but it's directly related. What do people think about improving equipment beyond its standard effectiveness? I realised after reading something on here about DS that the souls games have deep weapon upgrade systems. I was wondering if a system could be implemented in this.

I'm personally thinking along the lines of war of the roses where you could specify fighting styles for weapons and the bevel of the blade etc. It lends well to the modular equipment idea that was floated a while back. Obviously we know that changing the appearance of equipment is planned, it's been mentioned several times. But, I'm not sure that getting someone to improve it has. I think, if it worked in the same way as you'd commission a weapon from a smith, you'd also asked for it to be sharpened and the grip changed etc.

What do you guys think about improving equipment?

Demon's souls have a somewhat deep weapon upgrading.
Dark souls have a very simple and "casual" upgrade system.

Anyways to stay on topic
Being able to upgrade weapons is imo a "must".
Finding a low quality sword, taking it to a smith and have it sharpened/strengthened.

Personally I also like being able to give weapons magical effect (flaming sword) but it should imo, be made from thraum... Magic. Having some low level powers that give temporary magic features to a weapon would imo be fun. There could also be some high level powers you could find, that will permanently enhance a weapon.
However, each type of enhancements should have pros and cons.

Setting a sword on fire via magic should damage the blade.
So constantly setting a sword on fire, will reduce it's durability very fast.

 

[fluffydino2000]

Hadn't really thought about thaumaturgy but it could be interesting. I thinking a lot of continuous powers that would enhance the effectiveness of the weapon. Maybe you could apply heat to it with the energy form, making any slashes and stabs more effective and adding burn damage to attacks.

And as I wrote this Komuflage pretty much made my point. So that's that I guess. Setting things on fire is Displacement form of thaumaturgy I believe so that should work.

I do like the idea of it becoming weaker due to certain effects. For example, if you were to heat a war-hammer, the shaft would also heat and be more prone to bending. Actually, thinking about it, think how much cooler it would be to take all the heat from a war-hammer and have it cool down opponents and shatter them! Although, then you might end up shattering your weapon, which would not be ideal.

 

[Komuflage]

i think a broken sword shouldnt have less dmg than when it was not broken, as the edges is still as sharp as it was before broken and it might have gotten a new pointy end when it broke, so if the pointy end of the sword was quite dull before it broke it might get alot more stab dmg after it broke, but it will lack the length and weight it had before so the impact on hit would be far less, so as cosmo bozo just said it would function as dagger.
what would also be fun is if it could break off anywhere on the blade, making it sometimes work as a short(er)sword or other times not even usable as a dagger

There might be a chance that it gets a pointy end if it breaks, but the "tip" should be very dull.

With my incredible "photo shop" skillz

This is a broken sword, the right picture is looking at if from the "tip" of the blade. It would be difficult to penetrate anything with a tip like that (Since it's not really pointy any more)

 

[Parco]

thraum... Magic.

Seems we have the same problem getting that word right

However, each type of enhancements should have pros and cons.

Setting a sword on fire via magic should damage the blade.
So constantly setting a sword on fire, will reduce it's durability very fast.

i agree with this.
applying frost to freeze enemies would also make the blade stiff and reduce the resistance to impacts making it break easier. if lightning were added to it then the character would get shocked alot of times while it is enchanted making his movements stagger a bit or it would also heat up the blade making it loose durability and also making it deform alot easier.

 

[Empire²]

THIS BELONGS IN A MUSEUM!

Seriously though, I think deformable and destructible environments are going a bit far. As much as I'd love to see them in SG, I can't see it being added any time soon.

Having said that, I plan on, if we are provided with the tools to do so, making mods for the game that could add a certain degree of destruction to the weapons and environments, as well as implementing the renown system I've talked about a lot (probably too much ). I'm not a programmer by craft (yet), but I'm sure that with a lot of practice and help from the community, we could make a ton of cool things.

 

[fluffydino2000]

I too doubt that any of this will be featured, but it is fun to discuss. It might be nice to know whether or not it is a planned feature. I'm pretty certain that object deformation/destruction is much simpler than envrionment deformation/destruction though. It is feasible that some small items (chairs, barrels) will break so if that could be applied to equipment, it would be pretty awesome. Just think how interesting it would be to try and get your super-awesomely enchanted weapon fixed after it was shattered in a duel with a thaumaturge. It would also go a long way to making the range of quality of items smaller. You would have such a difference between an apprentice made iron sword that'd been used over and over again to a standard quality brand new sword, even if they were based off of the same model.

 

[Empire²]

Well, the problem is not within the creation, but the compatibility with the engine. I mean, I know little about coding (Maybe a tiny bit more than the average wandering soul on the internet), but I know that some kinds of features conflict with the capabilities and limitations of the engine.

Like I said, I'm no expert on coding, so it'd be great if a developer could answer this question for us!

Is it, from a completely objective standpoint, possible to work a feature like deformable and destructible weapons into the existing engine?

*shakes magic 8 ball with Madoc's face on it*

 

[fluffydino2000]

From what I can gather about this team, it's that if they put there minds to something they can achieve it. The way I see it, for deformable/destructible items, all that is required is a new model for the item. If skeletons can break and reassemble, why can't weapons break. I realise there are flaws in that point, in that weapon models will be whole models whereas skeletons may be separate models and are already separated in the game. But if they can simulate the destruction of the model, and change it to support being is pieces, the only hurdle I can see would be making AI perceive broken weapons. Obviously, that's all talk, is it possible, only they know. But, item deformation should be considerably easier, right? All you'd have to do is again change the model slightly based off of the forces the object receives (this one could be done artificially by just having different states of the model already saved which just swap out when the durability decreases).

 

[ZaratanCho]

But you won't really be able too see much/any of the deformation of a weapon unless you zoom and look for it, unless it is a huge amount.

 

[Empire²]

But you won't really be able too see much/any of the deformation of a weapon unless you zoom and look for it, unless it is a huge amount.

Well, the knowledge that details like that are present makes the game a lot more fun in my opinion.

 

[Parco]

it is possible, but i dont know how hard it would be, to make the engine to create new objects on its own. so if a staff is supposed to be broken i 2 pieces it will delete the model and create 2 new models. to make this accurate the engine also gotta be able to split the sprites, and with the current engine making accurate objects based on the sprite/model this should be easy, if im right that is (which im probably not anyway )

 

[fluffydino2000]

You don't need to see it for it to dynamically affect how the weapon performs in combat.

 

[ZaratanCho]

Empire, I don't disagree. I'm just saying if it is too hard to make it will not be worth it, at least for now(or it can be made in simpler way). ;D Though it was already said we are just discussing. ;D

Yes but than it can be made not deforming at all and still have the effects. ;D

 

[BrecMadak]

Spoiler

Better for Elric not to see that awful video for the 3th time or I don't know.. xD

And am I the only one here who worries that freezing or electrifying the weapon we hold 'may' give damage to us as well, since this is Sui Generis ?