Holy?

[the0thMonkey]

Zeus did not set the standards for god intelligence very high. Just sayin'.

Gods get bored. They have a lot of time on their hands. I think of them as possessing great power, not necessarily great wisdom or intelligence.

 

[Cooper Holt]

I don't think that there should be any deities in the world of Sui Generis.

 

[Tony]

How do we know that acting like a 2 year old is illogical for gods, have you met any?

I already answered this question in the same post you are questioning:

I don't want supposedly wise, powerful, godlike beings to have the intelligence and temperament of a jealous two-year-old.

If a god is supposed to be wise then I hope they'll act accordingly. If a god is not supposed to be wise then by all means make such a god act like a simple-minded idiot. But how such a creature managed to become a god in the first place better be explained very well.

 

[the0thMonkey]

But how such a creature managed to become a god in the first place better be explained very well.

And some have greatness thrust upon them!

In religious systems with multiple deities, they typically cover a range. Some (a surprisingly large number) act like spoiled kids. Others are wise, mature, helpful, etc.

@Cooper Holt

This makes me sad. I think gods should be implemented if only to add to the lore and depth of the game. Whether or not they affect the character is a totally different issue, one that I see your side of. I agree with you insofar as saying that gods, recognized as gods, should not play a major role in the life of the character in SG.

 

[Tony]

In religious systems with multiple deities, they typically cover a range. Some (a surprisingly large number) act like spoiled kids. Others are wise, mature, helpful, etc.

I am aware of this fact and I hope Sui Generis would avoid adding such whimsical deities to Sui Generis. I am not sure which idea I find more absurd: that people actually believe(d) such gods existed or the fact that they would willingly worship them. Sure, it's okay to add some fanatical NPC groups who worship imaginary creatures (similar to mythology). This might be humorous.

However, I'd much prefer if they went with a more realistic approach in regards to gods existing in Sui Generis. Perhaps a powerful thaumaturge accumulated such great power that people considered him to be a god. Perhaps there is some ancient creature that exists in the underworld who people fear as being some evil devil (and there could be a cult who worships this creature). More along these lines as opposed to the imaginary deities that you see in most games (like in D&D).

 

[the0thMonkey]

@Tony

Mightn't gods actually exist in the world of SG? Maybe we should put this question to the devs.

I like your ideas for realistic "gods". I can't really imagine them ever really being considered gods, but powerful dark lords, etc. Reminds me of Sauron. Awesome!

 

[Tony]

@Tony

Mightn't gods actually exist in the world of SG? Maybe we should put this question to the devs.

I like your ideas for realistic "gods". I can't really imagine them ever really being considered gods, but powerful dark lords, etc. Reminds me of Sauron. Awesome!

I suppose they could actually exist but that is getting awfully close to the "high fantasy" theme they were trying to avoid. The examples I listed previously would be more fitting for a low fantasy setting.

As far as a powerful thaumaturge being considered godlike (and perhaps even worshipped or followed by a cult) would make sense if regular townsfolk knew little about thaumaturgy. The things this person could do would seem impossible and perhaps this thaumaturge could use this to convince people he was actually a god. This would be a great way for some "bad" guy in the game to gain power.

 

[frakken]

@Tony
Maybe we should put this question to the devs.

Thats what this thread is all about, asking de devs.
But since they have not answered, I suppose this is one of the Mysteries to discover in Sui Generis.

 

[Prasse]

I already answered this question in the same post you are questioning:

If a god is supposed to be wise then I hope they'll act accordingly. If a god is not supposed to be wise then by all means make such a god act like a simple-minded idiot. But how such a creature managed to become a god in the first place better be explained very well.

No, you didn't. Why should our perception of wise be the right one? If the being that created man is considered wise, and we act in another way, who are we to call our actions wise? Also if you are talking about the christian god he is all knowing but in the beginning hasty in his actions. In later parts he becomes much more in sync with everything and more compassionate. Who says a god cannot faulter?

And i believe just as frakken says that Gods will play a pivitol role in this game, and they are probably the cause of the worlds destruction in som way.

And for gods sake (hehe), who says the world is high fantasy just because there are gods to worship. Once again YOU DO NOT NEED TO MAKE THEIR PRESENCE OBVIOUS. A being with "godlike" thamaturgical power is more high fantasy then the possible presence of a god. POSSIBLE!

 

[Tony]

Well, Prasse, if you didn't understand my post then I'm assuming English isn't your native language? I tried to make it as clear as possible. Sorry for any misunderstanding I'm not going to argue about the obvious though

 

[Prasse]

English is not my native language even though i have spent the majority of my life talking it, as well as attaining a rather high degree in it.

I am quite sure i understood your posts as well as anyone could...

I'm just pointing out that your arguments for not having deities are weak.

 

[Tony]

English is not my native language even though i have spent the majority of my life talking it, as well as attaining a rather high degree in it.

I am quite sure i understood your posts as well as anyone could...

I'm just pointing out that your arguments for not having deities are weak.

My points are not weak if you actually understand the English definition(s) of God and god, which are:

1. (capitalized) the Being perfect in power, wisdom, and goodness who is worshipped as creator and ruler of the universe

2. a being or object believed to have more than natural attributes and powers and to require human worship; specifically: one controlling a particular aspect or part of reality

3. a person or thing of supreme value

4. a powerful ruler

Now reread what I wrote and perhaps you'll better understand it. Good day!

 

[Tony]

English is not my native language even though i have spent the majority of my life talking it, as well as attaining a rather high degree in it.

I am quite sure i understood your posts as well as anyone could...

I'm just pointing out that your arguments for not having deities are weak.

I questioned your level of comprehension regarding my posts for several reasons. You did not understand why a wise god (I specifically stated that I was talking about a wise god and even put the letters in bold for you to more easily recognize this) acting like a simple-minded child was illogical. This is self explanatory.

You then started arguing about what it actually means to be wise, which may be different from a god's perspective, which had nothing to do with what I was talking about. I was talking about if deities do exist in Sui Generis then they should be more sophisticated than the simplified deities you see in many games. You also brought up Christianity for some reason, which again had nothing to do with what I was talking about.

And now you claim that I am arguing against having deities in Sui Generis, which I am not. I've given several examples in different posts of the type of god(s) I'd like to see in the game (if Bare Mettle decides to add any at all).

 

[Prasse]

OR, god is what the sacred texts tell you. I do not care what the english dictionary defines as god since it's only a reference to other writings, the original writing must always be absolute. And since i only know the christian god well enough to talk about i choose to use him as my example. And he is all of the statements you made above, he may or may not have been "1." from the beginning but in the end some would say he is.

 

[Prasse]

You said yourself that you find gods in the game high fantasy if there's any interaction by them, and that you´d rather see a mage become a god then an actual god, no? You may not be the one aruging foremost against the topic in this thread but you make it sound as if you would rather not have gods in the game.

 

[Cooper Holt]

I think that, rather than they're being real gods or deities in the game, that they should be powerful creatures would represent gods in some peoples' eyes.

 

[Tony]

Made a mistake while quoting a post

 

[Prasse]

I still think there will be, and it's going to rock

 

[Tony]

OR, god is what the sacred texts tell you. I do not care what the english dictionary defines as god since it's only a reference to other writings, the original writing must always be absolute. And since i only know the christian god well enough to talk about i choose to use him as my example. And he is all of the statements you made above, he may or may not have been "1." from the beginning but in the end some would say he is.

I can only go by what the English dictionary defines since English is the only language I speak fluently

You said yourself that you find gods in the game high fantasy if there's any interaction by them, and that you´d rather see a mage become a god then an actual god, no? You may not be the one aruging foremost against the topic in this thread but you make it sound as if you would rather not have gods in the game.

Yes, if there are actual deities or gods similar to those in mythology which make an appearance in the game this would be a high fantasy approach. I would much prefer a lower fantasy approach. There are obviously going to be very powerful creatures in the game, including thaumaturges. If people were to view these beings as gods or to worship these powerful creatures it would be more creative than having a high fantasy god make an appearance.

I also said previously I have no problem with NPCs worshipping whatever deities they may choose.

 

[Prasse]

No i don't think anyone wants a god to appear, that's stretching it to far i guess.

But like i said before subtle things that makes you wonder if it was done by the hand of god or just a random occurence. Say that you have 10 or less gods to choose from when you start your game, some may grant some discreet bonus or event change. And i am guessing that the world SG is set in is a world where many have lost faith in the gods, whoever they might be.