Exanima 0.6.4.6

blobface

Insider
considering the amount of money they've earned and the elapsed time since the Kickstarter.
I have been a member of this forum since 2012, and I'm glad to have read Madoc's response to this sort of general nagging question regarding delivery. However, the amount of money they raised was really little, in another post where I expressed concern over the project, my worry is that they might run out of money as they expand their scope (which I'm sure is tempting and fun to do for the devs), £160,000, even if we assume that they pocket all £160,000 (they likely don't), over the span of 4 years, is only £40,000 a year, that can barely sustain two full time staff on low pay, let alone an office with rent, equipment, bills and a team of developers.

I really look forward to the final product Madoc, and I'm sure in these months of silence you guys are tirelessly working on the project, so keep up the good work and good luck on everything, if what we've tried is only a snippet of what's to come, I'm sure it'll all be worth it (whether it's the wait from our end, or the risks you've taken on your side).
 

gumshoe

Member
Making assumptions and conclusions such as "Bare Mettle have received money so therefore the game should be done by now" is a gross oversimplification and not taking into consideration all of the facts or relevant information regarding the situation. Then proceeding to slander Bare Mettle based upon these false assumptions is, quite frankly, disrespectful and uncalled for. A much better approach would be to offer constructive criticism, voice opinions without adding unnecessary insults, raise concerns in a respectful manner, etc
I hope my post has not come across as slander or insulting, merely highlighting the impact of things changing and expectation management.

Kickstarter and other such programs set an expectation that a product will be delivered to realise the idea proposed at the time advertised.

I'm only highlighting that you must expect some people to be disgruntled with things changing substantially from there: not everyone is part of the ongoing discussion or agrees with changes ;)

Bare Mettle are demonstrating committment and quality output that gives confidence to us all to keep supporting, but it's at this stage well beyond the surety provided by the Kickstarter and there is certainly still risk.

I am certainly not one of the disgruntled, I'm looking forward to Sui Generis and the further improvements to Exanima. I just don't like seeing concerned people dismissed because they don't share the same confidence.

The reason it's taking us this long to complete Exanima is because the scope of the game keeps getting larger, and that we've spent more time improving things in response to feedback and criticism than anything else.
The answer is obvious, but why keep increasing scope when so tight on resources and beyond the original target? ;)

You want a better game, a more rewarding experience and the community asks for it. I imagine you must expect some people aren't happy with that based on their existing expectations.

Adding content is not the issue, it's adding major features. We have been making some very major additions compared to our original goals, and we work really hard to deliver a level of quality that our rather demanding player base seems to expect.
Which is awesome, but of course some people will see the substantial risk in doing so with limited resources as it is.

You seem to also grossly overestimate how much money we've raised, or perhaps just how earning and spending works in the real world, where there's endless expenses and taxes to pay and net profits are a thing for the ultra successful.
Not me, but have you underestimated just how much you could get done with that and how it may feel to some of the customers that they were not made fully aware of the development risks and 'real world' implications of the development process?

Anyway, keep up the good work! Sui Generis really is a fresh and exciting change in how role playing can be done and I'm excited for the (hopeful ;) ) future.
 

Madoc

Project Lead
It's perfectly understandable that some people are unhappy with how long the game is taking to develop, but mostly we've heard the voices of those who wanted so many things in the game to be better. Especially once we released Exanima on Steam.

The main thing we underestimated is how high peoples' expectations were regarding every aspect of the game. We were faced with a whole new reality of what so many people wanted, a lot of which was quite unexpected.

From our perspective we were a small indie team trying some new approaches, and thinking it definitely won't be perfect, but it will be really fun and interesting. What people seem to have actually understood is this game is going to be revolutionary and perfect in every single way, the embodiment of my every dream.

In this situation all it takes is a couple of community members saying "this should be like so and so" and then the rest of the community jumps in to agree and so everyone is suddenly adamant about it and posting it in every 2nd thread. The ideas and desires are often good, we can't deny it, and there we are doing the work rather than telling people "not going to happen" or ignoring them.

It's been an endless cycle of trying to meet our community's desires and demands and taking things to a whole new unplanned level of sophistication with each unplanned iteration.

As a side effect the bar has been raised everywhere, I don't think there's much at all we could do at this point without that significant extra effort that won't elicit a "why isn't this better" response. Things can only be better at this point...

It's only recently that we've been able to say that core features are about as good as we can make them within the next decade, and that we feel we've made every major change and improvement that's been requested. Sure, there's always room to polish things up, but now we are truly focusing on making the game feature complete.

Exanima has been and is still a journey of discovering the response of players to something quite new, seeing the reality of our concepts come to life, improving everything in based on feedback, including ever more features in preparation for SG and realising the potential of everything that we've done and are still doing.
 

Tony

Moderator
I hope my post has not come across as slander or insulting, merely highlighting the impact of things changing and expectation management.
...
I am certainly not one of the disgruntled, I'm looking forward to Sui Generis and the further improvements to Exanima. I just don't like seeing concerned people dismissed because they don't share the same confidence.
Again, I was referring to what Sgt. Floris posted and was making suggestions about how to better raise concerns in an appropriate manner (without using libel, insults and being disrespectful, etc.). I'm sorry if that wasn't very clear in my previous post and I wasn't implying that you were doing the same. I mentioned it in my previous post because you said I was being dismissive; my intent was to promote useful discussion rather than a flamewar due to people behaving in an inappropriate manner, not dismiss those concerns altogether. I have no issue with people raising concerns as long as they do so in a civil manner.
 

ZaratanCho

Insider
I think most people will be happier to have a much higher quality and fully realized game even if they have to wait a while. Sure, some people can get frustrated at times by that wait and sparse updates, and go vent that frustration on forums. ;d

Would you be happier if BM stuck to their original vision, did not respond to much feedback and released a game in a significantly lesser state, adding to it over time ? Also, would that have been be good for the game ?

As long as they have the ability to continue development and solid progress is being made it's all good for me. It is coming together beautifully and it is merely a matter of time. Need to distract yourself with other things or else the wait can be tough ;d
 

gumshoe

Member
Again, I was referring to what Sgt. Floris posted and was making suggestions about how to better raise concerns in an appropriate manner (without using libel, insults and being disrespectful, etc.). I'm sorry if that wasn't very clear in my previous post and I wasn't implying that you were doing the same. I mentioned it in my previous post because you said I was being dismissive; my intent was to promote useful discussion rather than a flamewar due to people behaving in an inappropriate manner, not dismiss those concerns altogether. I have no issue with people raising concerns as long as they do so in a civil manner.
Ah right, sorry. I agree :)

And thanks for the response Madoc, I think we all appreciate it a lot and i think the more we hear of your journey the more we invest in supporting you too!
 

16iclark

Member
It's been an endless cycle of trying to meet our community's desires and demands and taking things to a whole new unplanned level of sophistication with each unplanned iteration.
And you're doing an awesome job, you and your whole team! Absolutely love Exanima and can't wait for SG to come out:) Take all the time you need to make SG as awesome and fun as I know it'll be!:D
 
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