observations from demo: areas that could be improved.

J.G. Elmslie

Insider
OK, here's a series of notes on some of the stuff in-game. Range from the major, to trivial, based on my various attempts to get through to the end:


I've listed it as trivial little stuff - thoughts of "that could be better" first, with the bigger details and major points later on.


(1) Object: Hourglass.
There's one sitting on a shelf in one of the Level 1 rooms, and I was rather disappointed when I found I couldn't take it. If a compass shows which way north is, an hourglass would be a perfect way to show time passing. Is it daylight outside? Night-time? Have I been in the dungeon 3 hours, in real-time, or 3 days?
Mostly relevant later on, in SG, I expect. or if food/health is implemented in any way. But I think it would be a nice detail to compliment the compass, in giving the player feedback of a world outside the dungeon walls.



(2) UI: Equipment Dots:
It would be really, really nice (and really simple) if an object info box could automatically compare with an existing, worn object - if better, the extra dots (or half-dots) are illuminated. ie:

Wearing
Cloth tunic:
Coverage ◉◉◉◎◎
Slash ◉◎◎◎◎
and you click on
Leather Tunic:
Coverage ◉◉◉◎◎
Slash ◎◎◎

With a highlight when its something better than currently worn.
that would save so much hassle and faff... its little details like that that give a game polish, and compliment the gameplay without being intrusive.




(3) Inventory: Carried items
Clothing Item: Belt.

It strikes me as rather daft that a belt has a tiny bit of protection/coverage, but takes the same slot as an entire waistcoat/harness at the moment.
Currently, the carried items interface is rather poor, its often messy. I pity the pack-rat players who want to collect and hoard everything, trying to stuff it all in there, layers and layers of stuff. This will inevitably become a far bigger issue in SG, too.


So... What if a belt instead added a second, smaller, narrower inventory space, that small items can be put into, just below the current inventory area?
Now, to implement that and improve the gameplay with it, have that new inventory remain available without having to open the full inventory. Its just sits there unobtrusively in-game, in the bottom corner of the screen.

With such an area, you could use that for quick access to items - to tuck a key into your belt, or to have a healing vial to hand, or maybe later on, for a bandage or lock-picks, for example. Approach a door, and there's no fiddling with inventories to select the key - just a simple double-click on the inventory area, and then on the door, and the key which you had in your belt gets used.

In this way, the belt becomes a useful item to wear, it contributes to the immersion in-game without diving into the inventory for menial items. If you wanted, for gameplay purposes, you could keep it as the same slot as the waistcoat/harness type garments, like it is now, and you've got a perfect example of players having to make a choice - an extra layer of protection, or convenient access to tools and equipment.



(3b) Inventory: Carried item space
Following up from the belt, a few other observations about inventory space:
you're able to wear nothing but some underwear, yet run around with a mountain of stuff somehow stored in there. Impressive...

I feel it would greatly compliment the gameplay and inventory system, if no clothing at all meant a much smaller inventory - to represent just what you can fit in your hands (or stick down your braes, if you're that way inclined...). Once you have clothing on (which, hopefully should be almost immediate, then you can start to carry more, and the inventory box grows to its current size, representing your pockets, a simple belt on hose/doublet, etc.

The logical expansion of that association of clothing with inventory space, in turn, would be to implement several wearable items that can then expand carrying space further - the belt, already mentioned in point 3 creating a secondary space, or belts with pouches or a purse attached. Further expansion still could come in the form of an over-shoulder haversack, a leather back-pack, saddlebags, or a sturdy wicker and oak ruck-sack, each offering ever-greater volumes of storage space, represented by a larger inventory window. Each could expand the inventory space, it could also again serve as a player choice of gameplay style, by subtly penalising movement, particularly running speed. You can be loaded up with stuff, and move slower, or you can go light, and only have space to carry a limited amount of items.

In connection with that would be the potential for additional pockets or sections of bags to have different inventory tabs or boxes, allowing players the opportunity to self-regulate and organise their items, as they wish. They can say to themselves "ok, Books go in that part of the saddlebag, All my keys are on the belt, weapons go in the big section" for example. Such an expansion of the inventory system will benefit players and improve their gameplay experience, I believe.



(4) Object Mouse-over: Small items.
Now, it may just be me, using 1920x1280, but currently, picking up objects can be an absolute bitch. Even zooming in as far as possible, its often a hassle clicking dead on part of a key that's half hidden under a table. Could I suggest that when being selected, an enlarged hitbox on small objects that can be click-grabbed is implemented for really small items, the things that fit in one hand like keys, and will be even more important if jewellery or the likes is implemented.
Trying to click on something tiny, like a small golden ring with the current system, that might be just a few pixels in size? that's just going to be way too much hassle.

A slight halo effect on mouse-over, to show that the object has been selected would probably be useful, but only if its used only for mouse-over, so its not a game of "spot the glowing objects".

I dread to think what it must be like on low resolutions, using the current interface to grab objects.

Again, this is something where a small, minor polish of the system will improve the interaction greatly.



(5) Object Mouse-over: Click, rather than drag.
This is a very personal preference. I have severe RSI damage in my hands from when I used to work as a 3d modeller in the games industry. even now, years after I quit working full-time, mouse-dragging (leftclick down, drag, release) is incredibly painful if done for any duration. Likewise, the holding left-click for running/walking using the mouse.
I'm unable to play for long durations, simply because its too painful on damaged hands, doing that sort of action. a simple single-click select to "pick up" objects, move, and a second single-click to "put down" would make gameplay far less painful for me, or anyone with similar disability.

(5b) Redefine Keys
Please, make it possible to redefine all keys, including LMB/RMB - for reasons like I've already explained there.



(6) Mouse-over and UI: general objects
I personally feel the UI is extremely poor in some ways. with the X and » icons covering every action, it can be incredibly frustrating simply due to it being a sub-par implementation.

Is that a trunk that can be opened? no indication.
Can that object be picked up? no indication.
Is that a item I can interact with? No sign. and so on.
the UI could be vastly improved through the use of simple, subtle context-relevant icons - an eye or similar graphic design icon for an action to look in a closed chest, or at a book, a hand closing "pinch" icon to indicate objects that can be manipulated, an open hand to indicate items are too heavy, and so on.

Simple additions like that would greatly enhance the general interactivity of the gameplay, and improve the UI greatly. Such controls would rapidly allow the player to work out if something can be done, or not, without needing to constantly be clicking away, unsure if an object is simply non-interactive, or if it has been interacted with in the wrong fashion.




(6b) UI & Audio integration:
Ideally, I'd like to see visual clues that appear alongside foley effects for some elements of UI Mouse-over - for instance, the icon turning to a keyhole, or a padlock symbol beside a locked door or chest, when its clicked on gives a visual indicator as well as the audio feedback.

Currently, Foley work is weak in the game as a whole. the music is good, but ambient audio sometimes could be better, and little details like visual feedback would help complement the sound work already in place. Improving the UI's communication through the use of good, clean graphic design elements like this would serve to greatly benefit the game as a whole, and make interaction more intuitive.




(7) UI: Graphic design and Art Palette:
Grey. More Grey. Yet more Grey. 50 shades of f***ing grey...
(Ok, now I'm starting to get into the bigger details that strike me about the design, and this is rather defined by my experiences as a designer and art director, and the way I feel there are elements in need of a lot of work. I hope it makes sense to anyone who's not quite so heavily experienced in design.)
Frankly, its dull. Particularly given the general AD, palette and style chosen for the level design, Exanima is spectacularly underwhelming. It makes Morrowind look vibrant, and that's not a compliment. The engine's lighting potential is plain to see for anyone who's worked with colour palettes, and it is screaming to be exploited. At the moment, that is one of the biggest failings of Exanima - in many ways, more than the drunk motion control, it is the incredibly restricted palette of the graphic design for the game that is a wasted opportunity.

I believe that the overall AD for Exanima as it currently is, is detrimental to the game, and I believe that that will drive customers away. There are points where, even with a torch, I find myself having to increase brightness and contrast on my monitor to see much at all. Combine that with tiny objects like keys, with no hints as to their locations, and you have a miserable experience at times.


Now, much of that can be argued to be the setting. And I agree, the setting should have plenty of darkness. But what I would love to see is a lot more in the way of flashes of colour, moments of light. Create contrasts, create brighter areas, that form a visual juxtaposition, use the engine to its full potential, and create something that can go from looking good, to looking beautiful.

Nowadays, I work as a historian, and study medieval history, arms and armour, and the cultural artefacts of the medieval age. In my work, I've handled countless objects from the medieval age - from parts of harnesses of 15th century plate and 12th century swords, to Viking seaxes, and 16th century textiles. And what strikes you as you study these objects is that even though they might be 500, 600, even 1000 years old, the decoration shines through.

Our ancestors did not live in a monochromatic world of grey and brown, and reflecting that could make Exanima - and particularly SG leap out. Part of that has already been touched on - we have riot of colours in some of the clothing (Ironically given I'm criticising the general palette of being too grey, I'd argue that the textiles in-game are is sometimes slightly too over-saturated - leather harnesses in bright cyan, vivid purple or acid green jar my eyes, as they're modern aniline dye products, rather than pre-Industrial revolution dyes. The Devil is in the details... Also, there's too much velvet. That was a rare, luxury fabric, hard to make. I personally would prefer to see "velvet" replaced with cotton, or linen.), but what I would argue for is that the world itself needs colour too, to come to life. Wooden tables should be greying on chipped corners, yes. But the rest of the table? Those should be painted in bright vivid reds and blues, burnt sienna yellows. Chests, decorated in Green and White, bands of iron painted with a red lead-based paint. Walls shouldn't be monotonous dead, grey ashlar, but white-washed with lime, bright white stonework. And of course, you will get plain stuff too - but having bright stuff will allow the development of colour palettes, and help overcome the current monotony of brown and grey. It will allow the improvement of the environment as a whole.

We see medieval castles and churches as grey stone. they were so far removed from that! That's like looking at a dinosaur in a museum, and saying that all dinosaurs were black stony bone, walking around with no flesh. We have always decorated our surroundings, and medieval - or medieval-inspired fantasy - should be no different to that. And those flashes of colour will be what makes the world come alive.

In a later iteration of Exanima with art asset tweaks, and particularly in SG, what I'd like to see is the AD take a much more daring willingness to use colour - pottery on shelves not of mud-brown, but of bone-white, with glossy copper-green glazes on the tops of mugs. Tapestries on the walls. Bright ochre and blue-glaze tiles on floors, whitewashed walls, chairs and trestle tables painted red and blue. I'd like to see the creation of environment models depicting shafts cut into the ceilings of chambers, bright light streaming down forming Crepuscular rays (AKA God's Fingers) in the dusty gloom - it doesn't need volumetric lighting in the engine to be able to easily fake the effect in the environment. Make the place come alive with colour, to contrast those darkest areas, and it will enhance the ambience of the setting greatly. The game will benefit, it will no longer feel dreary, and it will entice players forward. and that can be used to also make areas darker, more forbidding, and in turn, make the settings more atmospheric.

At the moment, the lighting system feels badly under-exploited. You have a real gem of a game engine, that you could use to really play to its strengths - and currently, its being wasted in Exanima.

Your art director, and conceptual artists need, to be blunt, a shot in the arm, to have the willingness and the conviction to push the boundaries of the setting, instead of timidly repeating the same dull tropes. What you have has great potential.



(7b) Dynamic lighting:Object: Candlestick
Object: Fireplace
New Object: Flint and steel?
New Object: Lantern
New Object: Lantern Shield


I would love to see the ability to manipulate the environment's lighting become something that the player can do, following everything that's been said about colour palettes and adding life to the environment art in-game.
Imagine lighting up torches which were left on the wall, or to set a fire burning in the fireplace (with appropriate foley effects for the ambient noise of course), and to use a flint and steel inventory item, or a burning torch to light the candles, and for a dark, dismal area to be filled with light, the colour palette to start to shift from cold blues to warm oranges, and for a place to start to feel safe.
That's the sort of game play that lets players explore and change their environment, and also becomes a reward element.

Ideally, I'd like to see a flint and steel in-game that can create fire for that purpose - it becomes one of those items which the player will cling to, something that keeps back the darkness.

Even better would be for light to be able to become a weapon - by it driving creatures back, making them more hesitant if they break into a now brightly-lit area, and in that way, giving the player not just the sense of security, but also opening up tactical options for combat, to draw an opponent into the light, disorienting them, and giving the advantage to the player. Better still from an environment art point of view, that lets you further emphasise the threat and desolation of the unexplored and hostile areas of the game environment, to the safe and secure.

Ideally, for game elements, I would also love to see the creation of a Lantern Shield object - particularly appropriate in more renaissance-styled elements of the setting (the redhead with sword and shield in the arena makes me think of the renaissance era rondelero duellists, and for that sort of style, the lantern shield would fit right in) - and as this surviving example shows, its exactly what the name suggests - a shield with built-in lantern - perfect for exploring darkened places. (their original purpose was for watchmen in cities at night.)



Also, returning for a moment to point 7 on colour and overall art direction of the palette, note the decoration!

If that's not screaming to be used to light the darkness, and to dazzle and disorient the creatures down there, what is?



(8) Navigation
While the compass helps, its still far, far too easy to get lost in-game, or to find yourself going in a circle. it can be rather fun taking it very, very slow, and carefully drawing out every single room, mapping where the doors are, which way they open, annotating it all onto a huge sheet of paper on the table beside me. That is definitely not most people's idea of fun, however. What's needed is some sort of mapping system, that will reveal a map. (ideally, eventually, I'd hope that we have the inventory, a journal, and maps at the least.)

I'm inclined to suggest that the map requires the player to find blank paper, and charcoal.

I'd also suggest that areas of levels should have maps already drawn, for the player to find and to enlarge their existing maps through such finds.

Ideally, I'd like to see those represented a fairly simple line drawings in-game, not some perfect virtual overlay like many games do - just enough to let the player follow the twists and turns, but not marking enough that its leading them by the hand - doing so gives players incentives to make their own maps, if they want to, but also means they at least have something pre-generated by them.

What's badly needed in this regard are more unique landmarks in the way of art assets - the table with a map spread out on it in the second level, the exit from a corridor to find a large open space with archways, with two antechambers on each side, in the first level. Things like that become distinctive points of navigation that are recognised, and should be encouraged, with more details like floor mosaics, rarely used, distinctive set-dressing, and similar art assets, or strong lighting areas.

Its very easy to get confused if this is badly lit Corridor A, or Badly lit Corridor F.

One thing I'd love to see there for navigation is chalk, and the ability to make a mark (simple transparency layer placed on the ground) with an arrow or the likes. The other thing for navigation I've never seen in a game is a ball of string.... tie it to a point, and you get a bright line of string overlays over the tiles between your start point and your current position, up to a certain length - 100 paces (about 20 small cube rooms long) or something.



9: UI graphic design
I personally feel that with the overall palette of the environment, the general UI scheme needs a lot of work. The grey, square-edged boxes of the inventory, the colour scheme of the intro pages and character creation are horribly unsuited to the style of the game, and they contribute to dragging the game down into the doldrums.
Exanima and SG are meant to be a fantastical, somewhat medieval world, but the interface doesn't say that at all. It feels like the interface I'd expect to see in a cold, post-modern cyberpunk setting. Nothing about the user interface elements say "fantasy world" to me. there's no decoration, no details in the borders, no colours or texture that convey a language of visualisation to me. if its medieval, it screams out to have the character generation pages on either side of the avatar be in bright vellum, bordered with carved stonework - high pointed English Perpendicular tracery, or heavy Norman arches, Multicoloured red sandstone and white limestone chequers of Byzantine pillars, or painted polychrome wood. Not cold, square-edged grey Windows. And currently, for new customers, that first view of the character creation is their very first impression. and its not the fantasy world of vivid life and colour and vibrancy. Its the sterile grey of an accountant's office. And that first impression is dull. the screen is dark and gloomy, and there's nothing that hints of imagination in there. Its a marketing nightmare.

That desperately needs work, as does the inventory system, to start to create some sort of feel for the setting. The graphic design chosen there needs to have some sort of counterpoint to the current art direction's dearth of colour. And with Exanima now in public, for the Early Access, that absence of any flair or life to the UI is visible to the public as a whole. and its simply not good enough for that all-important first impression.



(9b) First impressions:
Tutorial, interaction etc.


There's dire need of a very basic tutorial at least, for the same reasons as the first impression of the overall graphic design of the UI - commentary I've read like "took 10 mins to open the first door" is commonplace, and its that sort of thing that will result in a lot of players quitting right away, and giving negative feedback to their friends, the sort of word-of-mouth impression that will scupper sales rapidly.

I personally feel that a number of guidelines need to be come up on-screen at the start of the game playthrough (you can have an option tickybox for "disable starting hints" for the ultra hardcore types), as subtle introductions.

Personally, I would be inclined to expand the opening room with the addition of another small anteroom that the player wakes up in, with the door ajar, the torch on the floor, and more importantly, a brighter light (a skylight, or similar) in the main room, the door out from the room locked, and a table or desk with a key on it, in the light. The light serves to stream through to the player through the open door, giving them a clear first direction to aim for.
That slightly open door is a quick, effective way to let the player see how the mouse-over action interacts with the door (and in turn, teaches the player instantly that the mouse-over interacts with other items). Because its a door that's a little open, even if they click and drag it the wrong way, and it gets pulled closed, they see that is moves, so they can figure out that it was pushed not pulled, and they can try the other way. This prevents the player from getting immediately lost, pushing on a door that only moves by pulling, and concluding that they're not doing any action.
The key on the table is well-lit, making it easy to spot. It teaches them that they need to look for detailed objects, as well as large items. the immediate access to a key and the only doorway for progress being locked, shows them how to use double-click and an action to do things like unlock doors.
And of course, its dark in the hallway, so they realise that they need light - so if they failed to collect the torch, its close enough to their start point that they should remember its there.

In that way, with a simple addition of a few elements, with a subtle series of guidance pointers that come up as items are collected along the path to opening that door, you've got the basic tutorial that serves to show players the fundamental control elements without it being intrusive. That's what's needed to give completely new players a very simple grounding in how the game works, and the core mechanics.



(10) Combat controls.
Kinematics in the body need so much work, that that's going to be a post far, far longer than this one.
but its the big first impression problem that I steel feel needs addressed in a constructive but critical way.

I honestly believe that there are ways to make combat much more direct and intuitive, without dumbing it down. I also am firmly of the opinion that as it is, it is both the best unique selling point of the game, and its biggest problem which will drive customers away. So I'll leave it at that and put that into a bigger post, later on. Someday. when the stars are right.


---


Erm. Ok, that was a longer post than I planned.
I hope some of those make sense for the important elements of design, first impressions, and generally, for improving the way the game can play, without compromising
 
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Nice suggestions. Some of these would really add to the exploration aspect of the game. A rough map you can fill out would be nice, along the lines of the maps in Thief, which are vague but help to give some direction.
 

the_grim

Member
Your points on colour palette and decoration are spot on. I'm an architect by trade - by no means specialized in architectural history - but from what I've learned, the common depiction of medieval fantasy buildings is as far removed from reality as horns on a viking's helmet.

Your average fantasy action-RPG has everyone living in houses made out of huge grey stone blocks, with ceilings made out of grey stone blocks, supported by pillars of grey stone blocks. In reality, stone was a rare and expensive building material, usually reserved for manors of the nobility as well as protective forts and castles. Depending on the geographical area, most common buildings at the time were built around a wooden frame, with walls of wood, peat or straw mixed with clay, and the occasional brickwork structure.

I get that Exanima is set in a dungeon, but even in a stone castle or an underground mine there would be a lot of wooden structures instead of the omnipresent grey stone. Currently Exanima's colour palette is defined by grey stone walls, grey stone floors - and brown wooden props. I'm confident that Sui Generis will bring some realism and variation in the outdoor environments (I saw some wattle-and-daub housing in some of the videos already), but the colour palette used in the generic props in Exanima is alarmingly monochrome. Chairs, tables and other furniture could very well be painted in varying colours. Pottery could be decorated, and bottles and other glassware could realistically be various hues of green and blue.

Clothing and armour is pretty much the only dab of colour in the game currently. I like the varying hues I can find on trousers, gambesons and waistcoats, and they feel realistic. Wearing a pink gambeson really makes me feel like a tough warrior (as I recall, pink-coloured clothes used to signify strength and courage)! :)
 

NachoDawg

Member
Nice suggestions. Some of these would really add to the exploration aspect of the game. A rough map you can fill out would be nice, along the lines of the maps in Thief, which are vague but help to give some direction.
I was also thinking of Thief. The maps quality here though would surely depend on who made them :p
 

El Maco

Insider
Likewise, the holding left-click for running/walking using the mouse. I'm unable to play for long durations, simply because its too painful on damaged hands, doing that sort of action.
Many of you already know this but I made an "add-on" to the game which changes the control scheme into something of an abomination that I personally prefer over the default one. In the exploration mode, instead of RMB, I use the W key to walk/run while moving the mouse governs the direction and speed. (Rest of the WASD keys allow 8-way movement relative to the mouse direction.) I.e. I only use the mouse button to perform attacks and interact with the environment. If this sounds like something that might possibly help you, let me know and I'll gladly provide you a download.

I do a lot of UI design and some graphic design as a part of my day job. The UI in Exanima is definitely not something I would personally make but at the same time I kinda like it. Its charmingly old school. The game itself is decidedly unsaturated but I think thats intended as it sets a certain mood. There's something unquantifiable about the graphic style that I like. I think Madoc said the outdoor areas already are much more saturated so we will get some color eventually.
 

Madoc

Project Lead
There's a lot (really a lot!) of good and valid points there @J.G. Elmslie and in time I'd like to address more of them.

I just wanted to make a note on the environment. We kind of backed ourselves into a corner here with the environment design due to the lore, which is actually really important to the story and not just some excuse. There's some things I can't explain too well without spoilers but I'll say what I can.

It is true that games often depict things as they would look after hundreds of years rather than as they did in their prime. In some cases this can actually be quite nice visually but it's something we will generally avoid in SG unless it makes sense. This is one case where it does make sense and not at all for aesthetic reasons.

The environment in Exanima has been abandoned for a loooong time and hence everything is dusty and dessicated. The once white plaster is stained and crumbling. It is set under ground and in this case stone is the most easily obtained resource, we've actually used wood much more extensively than we should have done. It is also a purely functional military environment, we have deliberaty kept things very simple in design.

Much of this will however not hold true for the upcoming environments in Exanima, the style will be less plain.

That said there are still a few things we may try to do add a bit of colour even to the current content but the abandoned dusty theme will stick.

SG will be different in many ways, this is set in SG's long abandoned underworld and has little to do with SG's contemporary world.
 

lvk

Insider
Great post! I'd like to to point out two specific points though, since they've already been talked about to some extent:
2. UI/equipment dots
The dots are, according to Madoc, not that great of an indication of how good your armour is, and that it's more based on actual visual coverage. I'm not sure where the exact post is, but I believe it's in the insider forums. I feel this has to do with how the devs are going for more immersion by removing more 'UI-based' things like stats. If they're still going for this, I hope they'll use something other than the dots, like a textual description of sorts (e.g. this armour is good against slashing weapons, not so much against piercing weapons), and some sort of armour quality indicator.

4. Highlighting small items
I think this was also planned since more people had trouble with it. I actually have the link to the relevant post here (still in the insider forums though). However, you have more expansive reasons on why it's necessary.

Besides that there are really good additions in the post, I love the idea for context-sensitive icons for chests and the like. I hope we'll see that eventually.
 

Elaxter

Insider
I love your suggestions. Amazing effort on this post. I hope the developers consider a majority of what you suggested, if not all! I'll be looking forward to your post on the combat.
 

ShaolinG

Member
Great post! Agree with almost everything. Wish they also add hotkeys for weapons) it's frustrating when screaming zombie running on you, and you just standing there 5 seconds and managing your inventory.
 

Excoriate

Member
I agree with all suggestions.

For the inventory part:
It definitely needs some kind of display of all the layers of clothes ... I found a chainmail ... several hours later I found another one and forgot I already wear a chainmail under some Tunic (i guess?) ... hard to tell how much layers of clothes I wear and to see my chainmail stats for comparison if completely covered by another garment.
 

Faelivrin

Insider
I specially like your tips about the tuto. There are some really simple things that could be made to improve the game initial stage so the player can get into faster. What you pointed out wont suppress the need of a more elaborated and in-depth one, but would lower the exploring learning curve for some.
 

J.G. Elmslie

Insider
I just wanted to make a note on the environment. We kind of backed ourselves into a corner here with the environment design due to the lore, which is actually really important to the story and not just some excuse. There's some things I can't explain too well without spoilers but I'll say what I can.

The environment in Exanima has been abandoned for a loooong time and hence everything is dusty and dessicated. The once white plaster is stained and crumbling. It is set under ground and in this case stone is the most easily obtained resource, we've actually used wood much more extensively than we should have done. It is also a purely functional military environment, we have deliberaty kept things very simple in design.
@Madoc
Thanks for the response, I'll certainly look forward to further commentary on some of the other ideas. (I must admit, the one I'd really like thoughts on is #3, the belt. I feel that could be a lovely little feature.)


while I understand the points you've raised to counter, at the same time, I somewhat disagree - as someone with a visual understanding of design, I feel that some concession to colour palettes and the likes is needed. At the moment, its too desaturated, to the point that it kills the setting - particularly when combined with the UI design, which is equally monochromatic. A minor compromise to the lore (unless the lore is that the builders of these settings were colour-blind morlocks with no aesthetic desire for decorations...) to justify some variation in palette would give a far greater benefit to the game, I think.

Think of it this way. We discover the lore in Sui Generis, But Exanima is the sampler that will show players what to look forward to. You need to show, to some extent, that it is not just grey monotony, to get potential customers hooked. Currently, the environment art does not say "there is a detailed backstory for these dreary grey halls". It says "this game only has one set of hallways to explore".

Its not to say it needs to become some sort of multicolour haven of rainbow-hued unicorn farts, of course. just subtle, minor variance in the colour palette will suffice to break up the universal drudgery. A floor with red ochre tiles, and a doorframe that overlaps the edge of an area when it transitions to a different texture. A tileset with walls that're plastered and white-washed, flaking but still brighter, not simply the same grey stone.

Doing that sort of art asset work is a trivial volume of work because it will recycle much of the art arrets - I know exactly how you've created the art assets for the interiors, I've done it myself many times. All that's needed is to create a new tileset, is to swap one series of textures and their normal, spec, diffuse maps for a new set. Building up an asset library of environmental textures which can be applied to each set of environment geometries is efficient in terms of asset mangement, data and memory calls, and in terms of man-hours invested in the creation of the asset library which can be rapidly applied to each set. Having been responsible for doing Metrics for art asset creation in the past, I know full well how much more efficient it is to have a wider asset library that can be culled from to create multiple asset groups.

More importantly, its clear that you already have more than one tileset complete to a greater or lesser extent, given the two different Arena environments. There's still not a lot of variation, one's grey, the others a bit more geometric grey, but it shows you have the assets there. Yet I've not seen any area in the game exploration with that set of textures. and that's just a squandered opportunity, which is quite bizarre. Its like you're trying to sell the product short.


Using multiple environments that way you can easily insert distinctive elements of the environment art, like a different coloured floor, or an aged, whitewashed wall, and start to make the environments come to life. players will say things like "its just after the whitewashed room", or "its in the room with the octagon flagstones" Even minor changes there, which show there's more than just one single environment in-game will benefit the product in making customers feel that they've not just seen it all already, as they go through the maps.



Now, you said that it is "is also a purely functional military environment" - but honestly, that's no reason for the monotony. Look at photos of Krak Des Chavaliers, in Syria - a military fortification built and garrisoned by the Knights Templar, the most austere of the medieval military orders, who, at its time of construction still abided by vows of poverty. And yet even there, there are painted decorations on the walls, frescoes of twisting, red and blue floral patterns that surround archways.
It seems to me absurd that an entire complex of hallways, barracks, kitchens, a tavern, bedrooms, and much more besides, would all be constructed, not just entirely uniformly, with exactly the same stone floors, the same corbelling on walls, the same sort of stonework, but also entirely devoid of any decorative features. It strikes me as incredibly unlikely that they have the capacity to create earthenware pots, but didnt have the intuition or creativity to make ceramic tiles like these medieval ones



And with their ability to make pots and plates, it seems absurd they couldnt put coloured glazes on items, like this:



The plain fact of the matter is, the environment in Exanima is screaming for more diversity, and colour...



---



Other than that, one last thing I really hope for: I hope that it isnt going to be the case that clothing, weapons, armour and objects found in these places that have been "abandoned for a loooong time" are identical to those in the surface world. its that horrible, tired old trope of the Medieval world where nothing's changed for hundreds of years, and Ye Olde Peasant from 1066 is dressed exactly the same as Ye Olde Peasant from 1466.... when nothing could be further from the reality.
Or worse, if its been truly millennia, its a bit like opening up King Tut's tomb, and finding an Ipod on the Mummy...

I'd love, for instance, if the upper world has a very renaissance, baroque feel - flamboyant clothing with doublets and hose (Codpieces!), puffed and slashed fashions, high riding boots, side-swords and bucklers, complex-hilted bastard swords, gorgets and cabasset helmets, while down in those forgotten places, its ancient gold and garnet swords, or early medieval falchions, boar-crested helms and maille hauberks, winningas leg-wrappings and turnshoes - stuff that is tangibly more ancient in design and execution.
 
Personally I don't generally have problems seeing the small items. I have problems manipulating them because I click on them and drag and the computer ignores/refuses to let me manipulate them. Usually it takes 2 or 3 attempts that were all clearly on target in the first place before I get some kind of reaction. Having watched a few videos I see others are experiencing the same problem too.
 

J.G. Elmslie

Insider
Likewise, I have no major objections to having small objects be seen (though of course, that could be argued to be that I've not got into areas in the 2nd and 3rd levels, simply because I've not yet found keys. Have I missed them because they're in too well-hidden locations? I dont know...), its the selection of them that is problematic, and where a halo on mouse-over, to serve as a visual indicator that the item is selected would be useful.
 

Madoc

Project Lead
@J.G. Elmslie Ceramic / terracotta floor tiles are actually one of the things we've been wanting to add to these first environments. There is some glazed and decorated pottery but not much, more of it and using colour is definitely something we could do. We do also want to add things like colourful banners and also fires. The tileset used in the expert arena will indeed make an appearance but not mixed in the same location as this. Making variations of tilesets is not quite as simple as it might sound, every piece of wall we make is modelled in high definition and then remapped on to a simplified version, there are quite a few possible combinations that must interact seamlessly and this can get surprisingly complicated (without introducing texture seams and the like).

One relevant point about interacting with smaller objects: something we have been considering is an overhaul of the inventory system. Instead of opening a paperdoll the view zooms in for an inventory mode where you can interact with objects worn or equipped by your character as well as in their immediate surroundings. It then serves two purposes, that of the inventory and of being able to closely inspect and interact with smaller objects in the environment.
 

J.G. Elmslie

Insider
Ceramic / terracotta floor tiles are actually one of the things we've been wanting to add to these first environments.
Yes.
There is some glazed and decorated pottery but not much, more of it and using colour is definitely something we could do.
YES
We do also want to add things like colourful banners
OH GOD YES!
and also fires.
and I'm spent. :D


*clears away tissues* Ahem.

Ok, bad taste jokes aside. All good to hear. Would certainly look forward to them.



I'll admit, I'm a wee bit surprised that you're modelling the texture for the walls as a master model, and then converting that to textures - were it a FPS, I'd agree that sort of fidelity is needed, but I'm not wholly convinced that SG/Exanima need that sort of LOD of the geometry - its certainly making your lives a whole lot harder than a well-done texture library of surfaces.


I'd love to see the overhaul of the inventory as a whole - and some sort of zoom function would be really interesting for gameplay as well - its something I thought of suggesting and thought it would be way too resource-intensive. Something i'd like to have a think about for design solutions I suspect!
 
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El Maco

Insider
its the selection of them that is problematic, and where a halo on mouse-over, to serve as a visual indicator that the item is selected would be useful.
Ideally there would be a clear visual indication if the cursor is over something that we can interact with. I'm guessing it is not the case now because the game engine doesn't want to ray trace into the scene all the time to find the object below the cursor, but only when you click the button. (Edit: my first thought was that its a performance optimization thing... but actually that shouldn't be a problem so maybe we can in fact have the visual indicator at some point?)
 
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arisian

Supporter
Having now finished the three levels in the demo, I feel that I too should give feedback. After all, if I don't give feedback, what's the point of Alpha access? On the whole, I had a lot of fun; I think you guys have a really interesting engine, and there's real potential for a really great game to come out of this. Obviously, it's not there yet, but that's what Alphas are for :)

On the whole, I generally agree with the OP's comments; he said much of what I wanted to, and most of it more eloquently and specifically than I could have. For what its worth, the fact that this place is ancient and has been abandoned for a long time did come across, and made the lack of visual interest feel lore-justified (I didn't really get the sense for the age of the place until some of the notes in level 2 and 3, but even from the beginning it was clearly abandoned). That said, I agree that a bit more color and visual variety would be nice, and I think it sounds like you've got ideas for ways it can be done without sacrificing lore or atmosphere, which is good. I will say that by the end of those 3 levels, I was ready to go someplace else. The overall atmosphere of so-old-its-sterile, as well as the claustrophobic darkness, was effective, and I liked the fact that the dark in particular had actual gameplay meaning (i.e. the choice between using a torch and being limited to a one-handed weapon, or using a shield or two-handed weapon but risking being unable to properly see your opponent, as well as the fact that this forced you to think about maneuvering during fights to stay in the light). But by the end of three levels, as fun as it was, I was ready to go someplace else. Preferably an outdoor environment, with lots of sunlight, and green plants. I really hope the portal doesn't just lead to another part of the same fortress...as a matter of pacing, I felt that the length of that "dungeon" was about right, and the game needs a lower-stress section next (in terms of environment design, not necessarily in terms of gameplay challenge).

The fact that it was deep underground didn't come across so clearly, mostly I think because (as you noted) there's a lot of wood here. It's not just that there's a lot of wooden tables/chairs/crates/boxes/chests/etc. everywhere, but there are great big plies of logs all over the place! Honestly, when I was first wandering around the starting area, my first assumption was that it was some kind of logging outpost; the first rooms I came across were filled with giant piles of lumber, along with numerous hand-saws and hatchets (some in the hands of zombies, others just lying around). Even once it became clear it was a fortress (and, after a while, when it became clear that it was basically a small city inside a fortress), I assumed it was located conveniently near to a large forest, since every level had large amounts of wood lying around, both in the form of defensive siegeworks and just in the form of giant stacks of logs. Another aspect that I think helped convince me that it just had no windows was the fact that all the walls are dressed stonework; if it's really deep underground and dug directly into stone, I would have expected the external walls to probably just be the native rock (possible smoothed, but still it would be uninterrupted stone, rather than masonry). I did notice the wooden bracing in the outside corridors, but it didn't immediately scream "underground" at me, though that may be due to my lack of mining-architecture knowledge.

It did take me longer than it should have to figure out the very first door, but other than that I felt that most things were pretty intuitive. Honestly, I think the door problem could probably be mostly solved by just adding a line to the instructions that explicitly said something like "standard doors are physics objects, and can be manipulated by clicking and dragging just like all other objects". I think part of the issue is that the instructions say something about clicking on doors with keys, which gave me the impression that the way to interact with a door was to click on it. Also, since there are a few doors (i.e. at the end of a level) which don't obey the standard rule, it might be worth making a point of that too, so nobody gets stuck at the end of the first level. Though just having interaction-specific versions of the cursor when you hover over different types of manipulable objects would probably go a long way to fixing this particular issue as well.

Personally, I felt that the once-per-level checkpoint system worked quite well; the levels are long enough that there's still the potential for a significant enough loss of progress to keep things tense, but it helps to avoid repeating the same content too many times over. I died repeatedly in the first level (maybe a dozen times? I wasn't really keeping track); made it through the second level on my first try; and died twice on the third level (once to the proctor, and once to the skeleton with the sword+shield, who was a lot quicker than I was expecting). The proctor and the pair of skeletons were something of a shock after all the zombies; it felt like a good time to escalate the encounters, since by that point between my improving skills and the armor I'd found, the zombies weren't really a threat anymore unless I got mobbed.

I also spent a bunch of time playing with the arena; basically, I started the main game, died extremely rapidly several times, and then went and fought in the arena for a few days before going back to the main game. It's generally pretty fun and challenging, though there are ways in which the balance between different equipment feels off. I suspect this is just due to the fact that things are incomplete; e.g. there are posts elsewhere about skills, which will impact the balance of combat, and adding tradeoffs for different types of shields. So they may already be on the to-do list, but I'll mention a few changes I'd like to see anyway. Besides more variety of movements, which I understand are coming, the thing that I find the most strange is the way that big/heavy weapons vs. small/light weapons behave. In particular, I wince every time my character blocks a swing from a maul with a buckler; honestly, that should probably result in a broken wrist or forearm. At the same time, an agile character with a short-sword and buckler's best strategy should be to get inside the range of the maul; once you're up close, the maul should be effectively useless. In the game currently, however, when you close the range everyone becomes impotent. A short sword should be at its most dangerous from very close range, where it can be thrust in a way that should be all but impossible to block with just the haft of a maul (or any other polearm), especially if I've got a buckler I can use to deflect any attempt at blocking the sword thrust. I think that thrusting is already a planned addition, so maybe this will take care of some of my concerns here. At the moment, though, the crushing weapons don't behave differently enough from the thrusting/slashing weapons. Sure, they have different mass and so they swing faster/slower using the physics system, but a battle against an opponent with a maul and a battle against an opponent with a heavy sword just don't feel as distinct as I'd like. Since everything swings the same way, and everything gets blocked the same way, the only real difference is mass and reach. In reality, it's not practical to block a maul; you've just got to avoid being hit, but it's pretty slow and its easy to get inside its' range. A sword, on the other hard, is much more difficult to get inside of effectively (due to both range and speed/balance), but it *can* be blocked, meaning that fighting a swordsman is a completely different proposition.
 

Zotis

Member
@J.G. Elmslie

In general I find most of the things you've pointed out about Exanima to improve are actually things I enjoy very much the way they are. Like the fact that a value doesn't light up to make it obvious that it's better than what I already have on. I remember the first time I found a better chain mail shirt I did not notice that it was better. I just thought, "I already have that." I was very pleased when I realised my mistake. I was very pleased that they did that. That it was subtle. That I actually had to pay more careful attention. Because real life is like that.

Anyway, you did a very good job at illustrating all of your ideas. Sorry to hear about the pain in your hands. Have you looked into a macro mouse/keyboard at all?
 

speculum

Insider
Funnily enough I didn't have a problem with the very first door, but I couldn't figure out that the double doors for the floor needed to be double clicked as opposed to opened regularly, so I assumed they were just a static prop lining the wall (even if they were suspiciously placed at the end of an absolutely brutal area). When I circle back around about an hour later, desperately trying to figure out what went wrong, I happen to double click on the doors and voila, I am in the second level.

It might be helpful to have the cursor change here so wayward adventurers like myself don't get too frustrated. >.>

(Also it took me 5 hours to beat the floor for the first time so I don't think I'm exactly setting a WR)
 
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