My hope and dreams.

[Wakko]

Watching the kickstarter video, seeing the amazing engine you guys have put together with stunning visuals and physics, I fell in love with this game. I really hope that this game will continue being developed even though it might not reach its kickstarter goal!

Anyways, I just thought I'd put my two cents of first impressions and hopes for this game, what I feel is lacking in other RPGs and so forth! So lets begin shall we?

• Modders. This is my biggest concern, will you allow your game to be modded by talented modders? I really hope you see the potential here, modders can come up with amazing things, it will most likely give your game a amazing lifespan. You never know what will come out of it, one thing is most likely certain though... It will be good things!

• First person. It seems like you have been focusing on the top down, 3rd person kind of view. But will we be able to play the game in a first person view? I personally love RPG's in first person. If we were to be able to switch between 1st and 3rd person perspectives, like in the elder scrolls games for example, that would be really awesome. It may not seem like a big deal, but for me that feels the most immersive and best experience. When I saw the amazing textures and visuals even zoomed in, thats when I thought this game would be amazing in first person.

• Different RPG elements I feel lacking in other games.
• The biggest issue with open world RPG's today, in my experience, is the lack of depth. The world doesnt react or know you're there, your choices dont matter in the long run. I really hope you have a solution to the very static and lifeless worlds we see in most RPG's.
• Owning your own *insert here*. In my case the *insert here* is a store, or a guild, where I chose myself whats to be done. There was once a mod for Oblivion called "Trade and commerce", which basically allowed you to own your own store. Why isnt this made more often in games? I'd love to be able to run my own shop, hire guards, find awesome loot and be able to sell it in my own shop. Seeing NPC's go by and browse my goods. Or maybe be able to start my own bandit/mercenary band. You can set up ambushes on traveled roads, find new companions and so forth. Maybe even change the whole flow of the game world because of your influence on it. Now thats something!
• Stupid AI that doesnt react to your actions. Nuff said?
• Combat! It should feel responsive and fluid, no matter how you play, if you are a sneaky assassin, warrior, archer or mage. With the amazing physics of this engine I have no doubt it will be amazing. And speaking of sneaky assassins, I hope you will be able to play as one and that you have a good sneak mechanic!

I think I've made most of my points now. And if not I'll post whatever comes to mind another time! I really look forward to playing this game! Thank you and continue being awesome, Bare Mettle Entertainment!

 

[Psychomorph]

Are you WakkoTheWakken on youtube by any chance?

I really hope that this game will continue being developed even though it might not reach its kickstarter goal!

Many Kickstarter projects seem to happen as a last resort option, when the developers went broke and see no other way anymore. For Bare Mettle it is more of a first try, first step. It would be nice if they get the funding they wish for, but it's likely no the end of it.

• First person. It seems like you have been focusing on the top down, 3rd person kind of view. But will we be able to play the game in a first person view? I personally love RPG's in first person. If we were to be able to switch between 1st and 3rd person perspectives, like in the elder scrolls games for example, that would be really awesome. It may not seem like a big deal, but for me that feels the most immersive and best experience. When I saw the amazing textures and visuals even zoomed in, thats when I thought this game would be amazing in first person.

I am a 1st person fanatic myself. Technically I hate everything that is not 1st person, but there are exceptions. The isometric view always had it's charm for me, it managed to give the first isometric RPG's some form of spatiality and depth and I think it still does with a 3D engine. I'd love a game like SG to be 1st person, but I was instantly immersed into it the way it is from watching the KS video. I think you'll like it.

• The biggest issue with open world RPG's today, in my experience, is the lack of depth. The world doesnt react or know you're there, your choices dont matter in the long run. I really hope you have a solution to the very static and lifeless worlds we see in most RPG's.

I have this problem with the Elder Scrolls games. I find them horribly shallow. It seems like a rich deep world, but once you see through the mechanics, it's all about mini quests and an absurd leveling system, which if you master, you can become a god, or if you don't master, have to fight nearly invincible crabs.
I gave up on TES, then I heard about Sui Generis.

• Owning your own *insert here*. In my case the *insert here* is a store, or a guild, where I chose myself whats to be done. There was once a mod for Oblivion called "Trade and commerce", which basically allowed you to own your own store. Why isnt this made more often in games? I'd love to be able to run my own shop, hire guards, find awesome loot and be able to sell it in my own shop. Seeing NPC's go by and browse my goods. Or maybe be able to start my own bandit/mercenary band. You can set up ambushes on traveled roads, find new companions and so forth. Maybe even change the whole flow of the game world because of your influence on it. Now thats something!

This stuff is nice, but I think SG is more like an open world adventure game than a social/real-life-replacement thing. But I can't tell how far they will go with this. I think the developers explained that somewhere.

• Stupid AI that doesnt react to your actions. Nuff said?
• Combat! It should feel responsive and fluid, no matter how you play, if you are a sneaky assassin, warrior, archer or mage. With the amazing physics of this engine I have no doubt it will be amazing. And speaking of sneaky assassins, I hope you will be able to play as one and that you have a good sneak mechanic!

Stealth definitely got my vote. Though I have to explain, that stealth for me is not the, let's say, generic way of being a sneaky Assassin like in mainstream entertainment such as Assassin's Creed, or Skyrim, but more to move through the location unseen and to avoid taking up violence if possible, like in Thief - The Dark Project. I am a different generation of stealth gamers I guess.

 

[Pantheon]

Regarding a first person view: not going to happen. Madoc said the game is meant to be isometric and that it'll stay that way.
Maybe modders can change it, but who knows.

 

[Wakko]

Are you WakkoTheWakken on youtube by any chance?

Yes, I am, why?

Regarding a first person view: not going to happen. Madoc said the game is meant to be isometric and that it'll stay that way.
Maybe modders can change it, but who knows.

Has modding been confirmed?

 

[Rob]

Has modding been confirmed?

I think they've pretty much said that they would like to have modding, but it is not a priority at this stage. First and foremost, they want to make the game. Things such as modding tools will become a priority once the core game is taken care of, which probably means shortly after release. Or rather, it will probably depend on available funding/resources. They will have to think carefully about that, given that it is a unique proprietary engine. I have faith.

 

[Psychomorph]

Yes, I am, why?

Because I saw your comment on TotalBiscuit's Maia video and asked people to "like" it to keep it strong, but your comment was liked alot at that point already. So you're part of why SG got mentioned by TB in his tweet I guess.

Has modding been confirmed?

Did you see how easy they deformed the terrain and added things in the videos? Modding seems to be half way implemented seeing how easy it is.

 

[Wakko]

Because I saw your comment on TotalBiscuit's Maia video and asked people to "like" it to keep it strong, but your comment was liked alot at that point already. So you're part of why SG got mentioned by TB in his tweet I guess.

Oh, I had no idea Cheers

Did you see how easy they deformed the terrain and added things in the videos? Modding seems to be half way implemented seeing how easy it is.

Yeah, it looks very promising. But I wonder how much we will be able to change in terms of game mechanics and features, and not just being able to create worlds and so on.

 

[Wakko]

Oh, its great to see we'll have dismemberment and gore! Awesome!

Stealth definitely got my vote. Though I have to explain, that stealth for me is not the, let's say, generic way of being a sneaky Assassin like in mainstream entertainment such as Assassin's Creed, or Skyrim, but more to move through the location unseen and to avoid taking up violence if possible, like in Thief - The Dark Project. I am a different generation of stealth gamers I guess.

Thats the kind of thing I was hoping for. Hiding in the shadows, walking through dark alleys and stuff. But unlike you, I like taking up violence Killing someone while remaining unseen is really awesome! Especially if they would make the AI smart enough to realize something is terribly wrong when their buddy next to them suddenly get an arrow through his throat, and seeing them run around in fear looking for you, only to be assassinated.

I hate the mechanic in.. for example skyrim. When you kill someone next to a person, or even hit someone with a arrow or something. They stop looking for you after 10 seconds. Just like nothing ever happened. You got a sodding arrow through your arm! Your buddy next to you just died by a arrow through his skull, why do you suddenly stop looking for me as if nothing ever happened?

I guess I'd like a mix between thief and skyrim or something along those lines. You can go past people by just sneaking if you want, and see everyone get confused and blame everyone else when the shop suddenly got robbed without anyone noticing. But if you're in a killing mood you can assassinate them one after one. Your choice!

 

[Madoc]

I loved the original Thief games. Awesome gameplay. I really hope we can capture some of that in SG. Hiding in shadows, being careful not to make loud noises, hiding bodies etc. These are definitely things we'd like to have in the game. I personally find stealth skills in RPGs quite silly but the stealth gameplay of the Thief games was great.

 

[Psychomorph]

I loved the original Thief games. Awesome gameplay. I really hope we can capture some of that in SG. Hiding in shadows, being careful not to make loud noises, hiding bodies etc. These are definitely things we'd like to have in the game. I personally find stealth skills in RPGs quite silly but the stealth gameplay of the Thief games was great.

Thank you for the insight!

 

[Wakko]

I loved the original Thief games. Awesome gameplay. I really hope we can capture some of that in SG. Hiding in shadows, being careful not to make loud noises, hiding bodies etc. These are definitely things we'd like to have in the game. I personally find stealth skills in RPGs quite silly but the stealth gameplay of the Thief games was great.

That is really awesome! I want to form my own "thieves guild"! Send them out on missions, steal, rob and the occasional assassin attempt. Or a bandit clan. Or even better, a viking clan that raids and pillage!

Too ambitious?

 

[The Hedge Knight]

No first person, please no. It just does not fit with how they have made the game so far.

Also, no offense cause I am sure you have a lot of great ideas. But... you sort of just listed off standard game features.

 

[The Hedge Knight]

No first person, please no. It just does not fit with how they have made the game so far.

Also, no offense cause I am sure you have a lot of great ideas. But... you sort of just listed off standard game features.

 

[Tony]

No first person, please no. It just does not fit with how they have made the game so far.

Also, no offense cause I am sure you have a lot of great ideas. But... you sort of just listed off standard game features.

I believe Madoc was trying to emphasize that they didn't plan on adding unrealistic stealth mechanics (like you see in most games with stealth). Instead they'd use realistic mechanics and design the AI accordingly (the AI will have senses and be aware of their surroundings). This way if you decide to use stealth you must go about it in a manner that makes sense instead of *poof* you're invisible and nobody can see you. I wouldn't call this a standard game feature since very few games design the AI to behave in a realistic manner.

 

[The Hedge Knight]

I believe Madoc was trying to emphasize that they didn't plan on adding unrealistic stealth mechanics (like you see in most games with stealth). Instead they'd use realistic mechanics and design the AI accordingly (the AI will have senses and be aware of their surroundings). This way if you decide to use stealth you must go about it in a manner that makes sense instead of *poof* you're invisible and nobody can see you. I wouldn't call this a standard game feature since very few games design the AI to behave in a realistic manner.

It's something companies always try to put in though. They never sit down and go "let's make the AI unrealistic and bad!"

 

[Tony]

It's something companies always try to put in though. They never sit down and go "let's make the AI unrealistic and bad!"

I agree. It's more along the lines of "we don't care about the AI since it's just a bunch of kids that will eat this shit up regardless. So why should we waste time and money on such a thing?". And then you get publishers adding their great ideas into the mix like "wait, wait, a realistic stealth system would be wayyyy too complex for the average idiot gamer. We need to dumb things down a bit to make the game appeal to a wider audience!".

 

[SergeDavid]

The complexities of making NPC's smart without being cheating jerks is a very time consuming and headache inducing adventure. You also have to realize what the information the npcs are being fed. It isn't visuals and audio but data. Hopefully with a world state and goal system for npc actions we'll see smarter AI. Like...

• Goal: Want to Kill player
• Condition: Player is in inaccessible house as it is locked.
• Action: Burn the house down, with the lemons.

Then the other npc's trying to kill you could be like...

• Goal: Want to Kill player
• Condition: Player is locked in burning house
• Action: Block all exits by barring the doors and windows from escape.

Now to sneaking, there is a LOT of tweaking to make npc's not notice you when you are hidden just enough, especially with texture with invisible parts (bushes) between you and them. The bush could block them from actually seeing you even though the textured part of it is only obscuring 25% of your body so they just walk right past you even though if it was a human they would have sliced you in half. And then you could be completely invisible to a human player since your outfit blends in so well with the dark corner but since the npc is close enough he can see you regardless. I won't dwell on NPC behavior (sneaking, detecting you, combat) at all until we actually have an alpha or pre-alpha to try out though. Though I will freely ramble on about npcs behavior in regard to world goals like

• Goal: Stop wolves from killing my chickens
• Condition: Wolves keep killing chickens
• Action: Set traps
• Action: Complain to hero about wolves and wait for the idiot to give you 5 wolf hearts, what in the world would you even want with a wolf heart? I guess the cat would eat it.

 

[Algea]

I'm also thinking something along the lines: if you're attempting to murder a civilian (some kind of peasant for example) they won't try to fight you off (well, not always anyway) but rather they will try to run from you and will ask you to not hurt them curling up and protecting their head. This is something I want to see in SG - not only it's realistic but it'll appeal to the player (making them stop or stroking the evilness in them if they roleplay a heartless villain). In short it won't be impersonal killing an innocent defenseless civilian anymore.

 

[walltar]

I'm also thinking something along the lines: if you're attempting to murder a civilian (some kind of peasant for example) they won't try to fight you off (well, not always anyway) but rather they will try to run from you and will ask you to not hurt them curling up and protecting their head. This is something I want to see in SG - not only it's realistic but it'll appeal to the player (making them stop or stroking the evilness in them if they roleplay a heartless villain). In short it won't be impersonal killing an innocent defenseless civilian anymore.

I am all for that as long as this won't be case for whole villages running from simgle man wielding a sword. I would like to see them run for their friends and then swarm you and kick your butt.

 

[The Hedge Knight]

I am all for that as long as this won't be case for whole villages running from simgle man wielding a sword. I would like to see them run for their friends and then swarm you and kick your butt.

Not very realistic though, just look at most hostage situations. People don't try to charge the guy with the weapon.