Most frustrating experience I've ever had in 20 years of gaming lol

Syllabear3 · Feb 6, 2017

Thats what happens when you play consoles for so long.

Jimmini · Feb 6, 2017

Kaladin said:
Edgelord #1 showing up for admittal.

Don't know what you think is edgy on my post. It's a fact that Bare Mettle doesn't care about such things (thank god). Also, I strongly believe that games shouldn't offer any such options in general. I don't even like difficulty settings. It's like asking Leonardo da Vinci to paint another Mona Lisa with bigger tits and thus ruining a wonderful piece of art, disrespecting the creator and his vision (and the subject) and finally trample on the very meaning of art (in contrary to most games, this one is indeed art). You could just as well spit straight in Madoc's face. If you don't have the time or nerves to appreciate a certain piece of art, don't buy it. The difficulty and the presence of actual consequences is a fundamental part of the game.

Edgelord, out.

Homiccus · Feb 6, 2017

Jimmini said:
It's like asking Leonardo da Vinci to paint another Mona Lisa with bigger tits

Bwahahahahaha! ROTFLMAO.

Made my day...

Syllabear3 · Feb 6, 2017

Jimmini said:
asking Leonardo da Vinci to paint another Mona Lisa with bigger tits

I wouldnt mind...

Jimmini · Feb 6, 2017

Syllabear3 said:
I wouldnt mind...

Of course not, everyone loves big tits. It's just not the purpose of art to always give you exactly what you want. Madoc could easily give us a power that immediately kills everything in the radius of a small town, but that would completely annihilate any fun with it. Why bother with combat's nuances when you can simply make the enemy's head explode? Why even bother inspecting the painting's subtleties in awe when I can just jerk off to some glorious milkbags?

Madoc said:
A game can't be hard if you can't lose. Every game that is considered challenging is so because of severe penalties for losing. The game needs to challenge you and inpsire you to do better next time. Without consequences for losing you can have linear storytelling and you can feed your greed and addictions, you can't have a challenge and tension, and in my opinion any actual fun. If everything is inconsequential then what is the point? If that's the kind of game you're looking for then you're in the wrong place.

We're sick to vomiting of games where nothing you do matters, where you can just undo all your mistakes, where there is no player freedom, no risk, no genuine incentive to perform well or even think about what you're doing. Nothing matters, it's all pointless and you can't win or even feel like you've accomplished something because you can't lose in the first place. Dry AF.

As for people complaining about perma death in the arena, I simply don't get this. You create a manager character, risking them in fights is 100% OPTIONAL. You choose that option, you take that risk, it's entirely up to you and there is no way you can possibly ever justify crying about it. Yes, the game actually allows you to make mistakes. You might want to actually consider what the alternative implies.

So many games these days try to accomodate everyone and make sure that no one ever has any reason to complain. Maybe you like those games and want the trend to continue until everyone has forgotten that games can actually offer something else. We hate them with a violent passion. Not going to happen here.

Our stance on this is never going to change. You can make suggestions that make sense within the context of the game and we'll listen, but if you're just going to complain about something that is fundamental to not utterly trivialising every single thing you do then you are wasting your breath.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/362490/discussions/0/412448792357145557/?ctp=3#c412448792359925636

Madoc said:
[...] The notion that as developers we're somehow bound to accomodate every possible customer and do everything and anything to increase sales is quite infuriating. People pose it like it's some kind of threat, and they need to understand that we are genuinely not concerned.

It does sadden us that some people are not able to enjoy things they might appreciate about the game because they don't like others. We do make compromises when we can, but there's a limit to how much we're willing to compromise. Hopefully if we are doing something right some other developer might pick that up and offer it in a different package.

That said, I think that while the game may indeed be inaccessible to some people, for the large majority the real issue is the incredibly steep learning curve, not the lack of a more forgiving save system. The way the combat and controls work is very novel, and it can take people an indefinite amount of time to wrap their head around how it actually works. Once you do though the game is really not very hard at all. Also unusually the game mostly becomes easier the further you get. Progression is very significant, you start off being very vulnerable, but this changes dramatically as you progress.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/362490/discussions/0/412448792357145557/?ctp=4#c412448792360582459

Madoc said:
[...] It might be frustrating at first but rewarding with time. Rewarding things require effort, they don't come easy. Gaming has taken the direction of accomodating the widest possible audience. This means my grandmother can play, win, and never not know what to do. An actual gamer plays in a zombie like state, and games are designed to manipulate them into playing whether they're having fun or not. The current generation of gamers are largely lazy and spoiled, they expect to be pampered by games rather than challenged.

I've been hooked on MMOs and loot based ARPGs, but they are based on a false sense of accomplishment that ultimately leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I wasn't hooked because I was enoying myself, but because I became slave to some idiotic RNG addiction. I come away from it with nothing but wasted time, because some guys in a lab have been studying how to trick me into pressing something like a trained monkey. Personally overcoming a challenge on the other hand is genuinely rewarding, stimulating and uplifting.

Some games focus on a linear storytelling element, but I choose a decent book over any gamer ever, every single time. I expect something else from a game, I want it to be an immersive and dynamic experience. Saving and loading destroys immersion utterly and makes anything dynamic ultimately pointless. Being able to trial and error your way through everything, explore every option and turn everything to your advantage, overcome any challenge by just rewind-try-again and completely remove any hint of consistency and consequence through unlimited time travel is ******* ******** as ****.

Any meaningful design decision implies compromises. When I weigh the scale here there can be not even the slightest doubt about which compromise is worth making. It's convenience at the cost of everything else that's actually worth something.

The concept for this game wasn't a generic RPG with physics based combat. The physics are about creating a world driven by complex and dynamic interactions with realistic outcomes, that is the fundamental concept behind everything we do. If you're here for the physics combat or you're happy with the current state of games then you're here for the wrong reasons. That's fine and it's your choice, but we're never going to destroy the very essence of our concept to just add some features to a familiar insipid game that we despise.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/362490/discussions/0/412448792357145557/?ctp=6#c412449431007846520

Madoc said:
Really? You're just going to pop in exclusively to insult people?

No, this isn't "Quicksave: The game", it involves actual gameplay instead. Some people like it. Oh noes! They can't have that, must take it away and make it the same as all the other games where you always win and nothing you do or accomplish ever matters! Blind fanboys!

Do you even hear yourself? Did you even read anything that was said or are you just "blindly" demanding an "I always win" button? Just in what perverted version of reality do you think your behaviour could be considered acceptable?

If you want spammable saving, every -up instantly forgiven and every bad choice instantly reversed just got elsewhere. Simple.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/362490/discussions/0/364042262877310503/?ctp=4#c364043054119484929

Syllabear3 · Feb 6, 2017

Ofc, and this was discused in the thread ive made when the knockout system was added.

People want insta rewards instead of looking for them... this is NOT one of those games. Once you know how to play it is when you enjoy it. Thats one of the reasons why i love it.

Those Madoc quotes erect my nipples.

Kaladin · Feb 6, 2017

I don't really disagree with what Madoc wrote, but I find your comments about "those other dirty games that require no skill and just give rewards for no effort" quite circlejerky and detached from reality. Dark Souls is plenty challenging, and it has a save feature.

ThommiX · Feb 6, 2017

Kaladin said:
I don't really disagree with what Madoc wrote, but I find your comments about "those other dirty games that require no skill and just give rewards for no effort" quite circlejerky and detached from reality. Dark Souls is plenty challenging, and it has a save feature.

You really should play more games that are new. They are exactly as described and again, the vision of the devs isn't to make this game one of those. Nothing detached from reality,except maybe you who don't understand the realities of game industry today or the vision the games developers have for this little piece of art.

Sometimes it is simply just you who are wrong and getting these reactions and there is no other reason for it. Just get that in your thick head. Read and understand what is the vision of the developers for this game and come make suggestions based on that. It will be received much better.

gugand · Feb 6, 2017

Dark souls let you start again and again from the last checkpoint (bonfire) with damaged equipment as it was at last dead time. A lot of people think that DS is frustrating too.
Exanima is a short game, a good player can reach the end in one hour. It is like the first Prince of Persia.

Kaladin · Feb 6, 2017

ThommiX said:
You really should play more games that are new. They are exactly as described and again, the vision of the devs isn't to make this game one of those. Nothing detached from reality,except maybe you who don't understand the realities of game industry today or the vision the games developers have for this little piece of art.

Sometimes it is simply just you who are wrong and getting these reactions and there is no other reason for it. Just get that in your thick head. Read and understand what is the vision of the developers for this game and come make suggestions based on that. It will be received much better.

Maybe you should drop the reactionary attitude. I said that I don't really disagree with what Madoc wrote. Why not leave it there?

ThommiX · Feb 6, 2017

Kaladin said:
Maybe you should drop the reactionary attitude. I said that I don't really disagree with what Madoc wrote. Why not leave it there?

Once you stop,i stop. So we leave it here. Its that simple.

Syllabear3 · Feb 7, 2017

Kaladin said:
I don't really disagree with what Madoc wrote, but I find your comments about "those other dirty games that require no skill and just give rewards for no effort" quite circlejerky and detached from reality. Dark Souls is plenty challenging, and it has a save feature.

Is not.
Most bosses are insta kill, but once you know what they do you can easily defeat them. The combination of you not knowing what is coming and the surprise factor makes it happen.
And isnt coming from myself, if not people who plays it a lot.

And to be honest... the videos ive seen are pretty boring. Hit incoming, roll, roll, roll, hit and roll, hit incoming and roll, roll again and more roll.

Array · Feb 7, 2017

For an enlightened group of gamers, I think this thread could be conducted with more civility

TheMusician91 · Feb 7, 2017

Array said:
For an enlightened group of gamers, I think this thread could be conducted with more civility

I certainly agree with this. Honestly, the whole forum could do with more open minded discussion rather than the "if you don't like it, fuck off" that many people receive. This is one of my top five favorite games ever, but the community can sometimes be a little off putting.

I'm sorry that my first post is kind of accusatory, but now that I can finally post after my first account had "insufficient privileges" I just commented on the first thread I felt I could contribute to.

Jimmini · Feb 7, 2017

Appropriate suggestions are always welcome, but some are just misplaced. Nothing wrong with seeking help if you have trouble progressing in the game, but if you suggest things that are completely contrary to the very core of this game, tell the developers that they are making the game "objectively" bad and calling the whole community fanboys, childish, edgy, etc. will generally get you an appropriate answer. However, I still haven't found any uncivil posts except from Kaladin himself. Actually, he got a lot of helpful and polite responses and explanations.

Kaladin · Feb 7, 2017

So you're essentially saying that feedback is welcome, as long as "we" - which only includes certain seemingly veteran members of this site - like it. What's the point of feedback, then?

And before you answer that, don't. I'd rather not have to rehash this pointless drama all over again.

Syllabear3 · Feb 7, 2017

Kaladin said:
So you're essentially saying that feedback is welcome, as long as "we" - which only includes certain seemingly veteran members of this site - like it. What's the point of feedback, then?

And before you answer that, don't. I'd rather not have to rehash this pointless drama all over again.

As long as you dont talk bs like this

Kaladin said:
I seriously do think this game would be much much better without savegames being destroyed. It's literally never good game design to reward players for 5 hours playing with all progress gone and having to start all over again. With savegames at least for Arena it would be much more enjoyable.

A toggleable sort-of minimap (with only parts your character has visited) in the game would be a great addition as well.

Its really simple: you get good and you dont need any save game.

Thats the fun of the game. Have you ever felt the adrenaline when you are about to die and lose all you have made? You should experience it at least one time, this game offers it.

TheMusician91 · Feb 7, 2017

Jimmini said:
However, I still haven't found any uncivil posts except from Kaladin himself.

Seriously? Have you LOOKED at Syllabear's posts? While Kaladin is certainly being quite rude, you cannot reasonably claim he's the only one being a jerk.

Syllabear3 · Feb 8, 2017

Second post and already calling out names. Mods please...

TheMusician91 · Feb 8, 2017

As a longtime lurker here, I feel comfortable pointing out that there are no real mods here. They've only recently tried to keep the forum slightly cleaner, but even that is mainly removing ad bots. In most other forums I've looked at, some of the things you've said in the past, Syllabear, would have gotten you banned.