Literature

One assumes there will be Literature in Sui Generis, but I thought it might be a fun topic to discuss. An interesting idea I just had is that, since the games storyline could end up being anything (within reason) that the developers haven't intended. Maybe, you somehow remove yourself from it all just by hiding your identity, who knows. Will there be literature in the game documenting the major events that take place as you play. Or more to the point, will NPCs write books, and if so, will they be relevant to current events. Similarly, will there be some kind of news throughout the world, posters about recent events, or will the society be more primitive.
 

Parco

Moderator
if the story is gonna go on behind the players back then having news papers would be a good way for letting the player know what have happened other places in the world that he could have interacted with, and it would be fun if the player can read about himself if he did interact with the event. i also think the news paper should have a 2-4 days delay on the release after the event have happened, the paper has to be written then mass produced and then exported.
wanted posters would also be a nice feature, and similar to news papers i think it should have a 1-4 days delay after the person have become wanted, the further away from the place he became wanted the longer time for posters to get there and therefor he will not be wanted in those areas until the posters arrives.
 

Scarecrow

Insider
On the topic of events happening being told throughout the world, there is also the possibility of Town Criers.
However, i also hope for great events being written down. Not newspapers necesarrily, but can also just be written down in books, which you can find in libraries and the like.
Still hope for it to actually be told verbally as well though. Like the people in a small village might talk about the unknown man, who came from no where and saved the village from an Ogre raid. You might be revered as a hero in the village, and news of your deeds may even spread across the realm.
 

Komuflage

Insider
if the story is gonna go on behind the players back then having news papers would be a good way for letting the player know what have happened other places in the world that he could have interacted with, and it would be fun if the player can read about himself if he did interact with the event. i also think the news paper should have a 2-4 days delay on the release after the even have happened, the paper has to be written then mass produced and then exported.
wanted posters would also be a nice feature, and similar to news papers i think it should have a 1-4 days delay after the person have become wanted, the further away from the place he became wanted the longer time for posters to get there and therefor he will not be wanted in those areas until the posters arrives.
Actually this is a great idea, you would really feel like the world is alive, if this is done right.
Also, seeing wanted posters pop up in city's could be quite nice. Instead of Oblivion style, where, if you commit a crime in a town, every guard knows about it in the whole world. This could also make disguise more useful, as you might not be able to enter a town if not wearing something that covers your face. And if you manage to get inside a town gate, merchants may not want to sell/buy to/from you since you look quite suspicious.

It could actually create a quite "epic" experience, where you wont be able to show your face everywere. Living as a wanted man, sleeping in caves or abandoned houses.
 

Fawz

Insider
If the story is gonna go on behind the players back then having news papers would be a good way for letting the player know what have happened other places in the world that he could have interacted with, and it would be fun if the player can read about himself if he did interact with the event. i also think the news paper should have a 2-4 days delay on the release after the even have happened, the paper has to be written then mass produced and then exported.

Wanted posters would also be a nice feature, and similar to news papers i think it should have a 1-4 days delay after the person have become wanted, the further away from the place he became wanted the longer time for posters to get there and therefor he will not be wanted in those areas until the posters arrives.
Those sound like great ideas. Since a major draw to SG is that the world is a living thing and keeps on moving forward without player involvment, communicating that is aspect is key to creating a memorable experience.

I'm sure the devs have considered having dialogue allude to events past the player failed to get himself involved in, but I would very much like to also see past events represented physically in the world. Books, newspapers and wanted posters sound like a good way to go about that on top of the other stuff.
 

Oona

Insider
It would be so funny if some followers/companions had diaries that you could find in their houses, and they'd write about things that happened while you were adventuring with them. "So, this weird bald guy who hired me to follow him around- he just went into this cave filled with monsters. With just a stick as a weapon." :p
 

ZaratanCho

Insider
Having your own notebook where you can write down anything you want sounds very cool to me. Especially if there isn't some journal/lore section where information about monsters and all things just unlocks like usually.

Haven't given it too much thought though. ;D
 
I wonder if the player will be able to write letters to send to other characters. It would probably have to work in the same way as dialogue but think how cool it would be to influence a storyline by sending a letter. You could get a whole army slain by warning one faction of another's plans.
 

Meaghan Ballard

Supporter
I like the idea of written history and communication, but I don't think it should be a general thing for the entire populace. Most peasants and lower class had little to no ability to read or write for the time period that this game emulates. Therefore, I feel like it should be reserved for the upper class, nobles and higher class merchants. Also, as much as I enjoy reading the history books like in Skyrim, I don't know if they have the man power to write all that up. But I do think it would be awesome if the lords kept day to day logs or diaries, so that they are able to keep records.
 

ZaratanCho

Insider
The game is not emulating a certain time period, it is not a medieval simulator or whatever. Maybe stop deciding so absolutely how it should be based on that. The diaries idea seems interesting, but only for some lords and not too many idividuals. Everyone having a diary that writes what he is doing will be pretty bad. ;D

P.S. There were some pretty good stories in the books of Skyrim indeed. ;D
 

Meaghan Ballard

Supporter
Whether it is based on a certain time period or not, with the information about the world we have been given it would still be illogical for the lower classes to all be literate. Some might be, because their parents were and taught them but just as many wouldn't see the point and wouldn't learn to read and write. This is more based on the human mind set than any specific time period. Unless of course there is some kind of mass mandatory schooling for everyone, but I don't really think that fits in either. Of course it will be up to the devs in the end, but to me it just doesn't make sense.
 

ZaratanCho

Insider
We don't really know at all, and even though i agree that it seems more logical for most people to not be able to write we are not objective at all. And what i said wasn't really aimed so much at this matter only, but overall. ;D

Again i agree with what you say now, but not with comparing the game one for one with medieval ages.
 
What about books as a way of informing the character about the game world in useful ways. Rather than history books (like Skyrim) that don't really provide much practical content other than the motivations of the factions involved, why not have books on alchemy, crafting, and combat. Yes, Skyrim had these, but the game mechanics were not sufficiently advanced to support them. I think SG could do this properly, maybe highlighting the weaknesses of certain monsters or telling where certain alchemical ingredients are likely to grow.

As previously mentioned, diaries, newspapers, and wanted posters would reflect current events and could add a lot to the vibrancy of the game world. It's another case where realism needs to be balanced with gameplay mechanics. Skyrim's system of all the bandit leaders leaving their diaries lying around conveniently right where you happen to be with information on where to find the treasure, was immersion breaking and tedious. If a similar system is to be implemented, it would have to be far more subtle.
 

ZaratanCho

Insider
Well pretty much what i was thinking. Books that tell you good ways to deal with certain beats, enemies etc (Some may not be true though ;D). But such books(this info can also be conveyed in various other ways than just books) should be very rare, especially the more useful once. They can give a smart person a good advantage in things. ;D
 

ZaratanCho

Insider
Some really great library of a secret cult or circle, that is incredibly hard to get access to, but if you do there you can find alot of incredible information and learn some things. ;D
 

Komuflage

Insider
Well pretty much what i was thinking. Books that tell you good ways to deal with certain beats, enemies etc (Some may not be true though ;D). But such books(this info can also be conveyed in various other ways than just books) should be very rare, especially the more useful once. They can give a smart person a good advantage in things. ;D
Imagine a game where the libraries not only provide eye candy but actual utility! :)
Was just thinking of a library. There could be some books that explains normal creatures in the public library in middle of town, some old man who lives in the woods could have some rear books describing some more exotic creatures.

This would also be a great mechanic to make people take a break from adventuring for a while, get to nearest town and read some.
 

Empire²

Insider
Well, a huge part of game design is presenting the world in a way that does not break your immersion. You can constantly have pop ups that explain everything about the world, or you can experience it in a realistic situation.

You might have a prologue where you start walking down a corridor. As you walk further and further, you notice a skeleton standing in the middle of the hallway. At that point, there are two game decisions.

Option 1 (Not suited for SG in my opinion): As soon as you get close enough to the enemy, a pop up appears telling you that skeletons can be defeated, but will resurrect and reassemble themselves after some time.

Option 2 (Probably better suited): As soon as the enemy is in sight, it walks into a trap. maybe it's a boulder that smashes him to pieces, or a dart shooter from the walls that causes him to fall apart. However, before you can reach him, he's started reassembling himself.

The second option teaches you game mechanics by example without really ruining the immersion. Books can do the same thing. In a dungeon, you might be forced through a room where someone is sitting at a table far away from you with their back towards you. At another table, right where you enter the room, there's a bow and quiver leaning against a wooden chair, and a book on the table. You read the book and it tells you that bows are a very useful weapon for picking off enemies from a distance. As soon as you can see the enemy that is sitting at the table, a small overlay appears, telling you which buttons to press to operate the bow.

Having pop-up hints explain the game to you often causes you to lose immersion, because they're always written like the developer is explaining mechanics from an outside perspective.

Here is a comparison between two ways of formulating a hint:

Option 1 (Pop-up Hint):
"Bows are ranged weapons, used to take on enemies from afar. Arrows fired from a bow can cause enemies to be crippled, making them partially immobile and thus rendering them incapacitated. Use your bow on the enemy across the room."

Option 2 (Book on table):
"Today Maryck returned wounded from a raid. They had found a small hunting cabin by the river, and approached with care. However, out there by the cabin somewhere, a hunter had heard them approach from afar. Maryck was too careless and was shot with an arrow. Luckily, it had hit him in the thigh. He could've been off a lot worse if the hunter had the chance to fire another arrow."


I personally think, and I hope you all agree with me, that the first option breaks immersion too much. What would be fine is giving your some sort of tip on the controls.


Also, if there were to be libraries in the game, I would like to sign up as a writer. The additional lore in The Elder Scrolls has always amazed me, and I think it adds a whole new level of excitement and realism to a game.
 

Komuflage

Insider
Honestly I don't think the Option 1 never was even considered.

I hate pop up hints, today breaks immersion, just tried a game called confrontation, and the whole first mission and beginning of the second was just pup up hints. Managed to play 40min then I got sick of it.

Imo pop up hints are only ok in a RPG, if they work similar to the souls game, were you can see an indication on the floor telling you there is a hint there if you so chose to read it. Or if it's like in EVE, where you got a tutorial "book" where you could chose a subject and learn about it. In other words, it's optimal.
 

ZaratanCho

Insider
Even if you are left to figure things completely alone, it would be cool with me. ;D At least no forced paths that "simulate" kind of a tutorial. ;D
 
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